11-3 Curriculum meeting

LMSD Curriculum Meeting -11/3/2010, 8am
Construction taking place right outside of meeting room door, missed some comments.
H=Honors
AP=Advanced placement
Attendance- Kugel, DiBonaventuro, Gilbert, McGinley, Spence, Braffman, Maguire, Barbato, Hughes, Kline, Fair Pliskin, Acconciamessa, Conrad, Rider-Bertrand-and 3 others
I arrive at 8:09 am- They have already begun discussing the previously proposed 4 AP classes at LM HS , and 1 other course at both.

Steve Barbato –passes hand outs
K- LM HS has a large # of students in art (sophomore-senior) AP art does not count in GPA
McG- IB art at H HS has cache, but only 3 students (?)
DiB-Asks Maguire for enrollment #’s in both HS - and all enrollment numbers Board asked for via e mail.
Mag-Does not have #’s, will get them to board by day’s end (K and DiB grumble).
McG-Small Freshman class at LM HS this year, down by 80-100
Mag-Elective numbers fluctuate wildly from year to year, can’t predict # of kids in electives.
Speculates that students would take AP Eco to boost GPA, college entrance.
DiB-AP Visual Art does not count on GPA but is seen on student transcript.
Mag-Electives don’t count. We can handle class’s w/low numbers with classes we currently offered.
McG-AP Eco offered in 2 sections -Honors & AP schools control how many students in.
Hughes-Same with Psych.
DiB-Divided sections will create “singletons” (half year course) Psych is 4 sections in Honors. 3 in AP
Mag-Link classes together, plan classes to avoid singletons-classes could feed to one another. Look at enrollment to create pairings.
K-LM HS does not have ST Art-Why add AP for seniors when we can create a 4year goal to get to AP Art?
We are we not adding Studio Art to create demand, and create a real feeder pattern?

G- Is College Prep a feeder to Honors? Students that are not Honors or AP , likely to get those kids in here?
McG-Psych kids may not have an opportunity to take AP- can with this course.
Mag- Attract kids to AP courses if you add these.
G-Is this the point? To attract different groups of kids if we add these? Or if we have two sections of H whatever now we will have one of H and one of AP?
FP-If you are not in Science or Math you have trouble finding tougher courses as prescribed curriculum.
G-What is the plan? To move kids in to these?
McG-College Board sets curriculum text- Pre IB, Pre Ap –we needed to change our philosophy in Middle School-different skills set are required- prep and study skills.
Mag-This can fill cultural gap from HS to college.
K-(firm) We need to be doing this for every kid.
McG- Road Map gives a broad perspective-parents awareness has changed. Change expectation from all sides.
Mag- Support skills of average students and build success. Grow nontraditional kids into these programs, AP& H.
McG-What is the priority here-to create feeders or target –AP Psych is easier, and move in to Eco.
K-(firm, urgent) Jack, last week when this was first presented you said there was opportunity already at LM HS-I don’t see it at H HS- this is not equivalent opportunity at H HS. This would be a disservice to HH kids and redistricted students.
FP-(firm, urgent) To tell kids NOT to go to LM, because it does not have AP Psych is RIDICULOUS.
K-We are not making things equal if we add at LM and NOT at H.
FP- we wanted to make kids college ready and pushed language –vital to college, that’s not math heavy courses.
Di B-Ap Eco….?? 5 science, 4 social study.
Kline-We need to look at Advanced Classes.
FP –Need to change curriculum of to IB, and H and AP will benefit.
Kline- Peer group with IB.
McG-Will AP and H at H HS take kids out of IB?

Braf-Us News reports the national rankings based on how many AP classes. IB is put at a different level.
1. missed this
2. Content
3. Assessments
College admission- because of variability in HS programs-colleges see AP and IB and this is what they want.
G This is not the point. The question is equity between schools and increasing opportunity for kids who don’t take these courses traditionally.
DiB-LM kids are getting into college- equitable courses at both schools. Why a heavy work load (with these proposed classes) & not to count on GPA?
Kline- What is the true need of the student? We need true numbers.
Mag-The opportunity to take more AP or accelerated classes does not exist at LM.
DiB-IB in not the same as AP. Different kids
K-the perception of students & families is that LM has more AP classes now-this looks like a disaster.
McG- AP long term is to get all kids an AP experience. Grand fathering is gonna hurt AP Psych at LM –fewer kids this year.
K-Phase them in and change perception.
McG-yes we need to.
G-Why not have kids “level up” in Psych to honors then AP-isn’t this the goal?
Mag-School wide this is to get all kids to H & AP.
Di B-Kids are not gonna take AP to just take AP- this needs to be built in to from Honors to AP.
McG-We have done this in the past few years. Counselors have overridden the advice of MS and GS to recommend kids to H.
Di B-We need to see numbers ... we don’t want to take resources out of H HS for 8-10 kids who are already at the top. They are gonna take AP anyway. Look at the big picture- all resources should be building to MS & 9.
K-(agitated) HL is what colleges are looking at NOT SL.
FP-(agitated) If we have to make every decision about making each school exactly equal and have to make every decision based on IB, the public is divided and will be.
Kline-Penn State program, no one really goes for it- 21 kids-there are prerequisites…
K-We want the same level of opportunity at each school.
FP-(angry) If we…have everything equal then we should remove IB from Harriton!
G-(angry) If you take away IB -YOU can redistrict even more kids to Harriton!?
?- No college credit for IB.
K & DiB- no that is a very different thing- different diploma –a certificate program-it has different meaning.
K-Answer truthfully, do we need to take college info and match it to our courses?
McG-(agitated) our best indicator of the truth is the College Board. They say add more AP, but no promises how it will be read by college applying to. In 2 yrs. More kids at H HS, we need to make them equal.
FP- Equivalent at both schools.
G- Evaluations?
McG-8 &9, transitions, road map-with Math program the conversation is in 6 not 9.We need to have this conversation in MS. Create real opportunity, access, change curriculum and groupings to move more kids in. We have a structure to move kids in to AP. Data from LM - this works.
DiB-wanted to see schedulers and have their suggestions on the issue (singletons), I know conversations without them are difficult. We can act here with the best of intentions & create a nightmare for schedulers.
McG(furious)Diane the management of staff is me, not the board. I have been asked to be “honest” and now about management-I find this tough to take!
G-Not sure what we are being asked to do at this point. We are not supporting classes at LM and not Harriton. Where are we
Bar-Studio Art is at both. AP Eco is at H HS. Add AP Psych- separate them out.
K-Is there a way to track if kids in SL Psych would take AP Psych is available?
Kline- Not truthful data.
Bar-Focus groups or a survey would help.
G-The concern is that we don’t know that kids are taking the classes, are offered H to AP. Is this effective?
Hughes-We have data at LM that kids are taking AP options-those that would not ordinarily.
Spence- Clustering students is beneficial. Peer groups of all kinds-market these classes with this idea.
FP and others- say something –I can’t hear. Jack hammer out side of door.
DiB –(angry)You can’t use equality both ways, you can’t say we shouldn’t care that there are not AP courses at H and say we have to offer more AP courses at LM because it is unequal!
FP- (aggravated & angry) Adding AP at LM will not dilute IB! Remove IB from Harriton!
McG-AP Psych does not dilute IB.
K- (Firm, agitated) But creating opportunities for kids needs to be at both schools!
McG-We start at LM and next at H. these programs can be phased in.
FP- More H and AP and IB difficulty.
DiB-IB is a program and certificate-it’s different.
McG-yes, a different diploma….
FP- Exits.
McG-AP Psych at LM in fall 2011, then H HS fall 2012.
Bar- Phase in- Studio Art, Media Literacy, and AP Psych.
G- This goes back to the larger issue. What are the trade offs? Will we have money for ES Science, & ES support if we have these AP?
Mag-Yes, built in.
DiB- A year from now, what is the evaluation of participation?
McG- More and different kids in H & AP.
DiB-The next thing is kids that are not going for H & AP, what do we offer them? I need to see a concrete ….that we are moving our kids where they need to be.
K-Exits.
Braf-We can review kids previous scheduled, and see where they came from.
McG- We have no mandate for them to take AP.


DiB-Is there a regulation to take the test?
McG-AP test scores are detrimental-kids don’t want to take the test. We don’t mandate the test.
G- Expectations and access.
Mag-AP tests a badge of honor at Upper Darby.
G-When is the projected evaluation?
Bar- Spring.
DiB –We do great at getting kid from LM in to college- we don’t want to hurt them by offering classes they won’t take.
G- We need to know what is the educational value of these courses, college admission is not enough.
Bar- K has other thing on her list- bullying, stress….for next time I guess.
Adjourned.

Curriculum Meeting 11-10-2010